Van Karner VK12

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964AWACS
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Van Karner VK12

Post by 964AWACS »

I just purchased a Van Karner Chemical Arms Company VK12. On each side of the cast brass grips there is a small raised panel. On the left panel is stamped "PATENTED" and on the right is "A943." Is A943 the serial number? I ask because the barrel lug and inside the frame are stamped with "914" - which could also be the serial number or an assembly number.

Thanks!
--Rob
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signalman
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Re: Van Karner VK12

Post by signalman »

I believe it is the military contract serial number. The other numbers could be assembly numbers or a commercial serial number.
Guns have only two enemies, rust and politicians.


I am still looking for ANY information regarding the European Use of the Original Costons flares from 1859 through 1881. Photo's, Patents, contracts & orders, ANY INFORMATION IS NEEDED ! !
somd_mustangs
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Re: Van Karner VK12

Post by somd_mustangs »

I also cast my vote for the external panel being a unit number or contract number and the internal being the actual S/N.

I've got one of these beasts, and it has "PT" on the left panel and "B 253" on the right.
The barrel, inside the receiver, and most small parts on mine are stamped with "230" :
- brass trigger
- sear "lever"
- hammer
- barrel latch
- extractor

I had to take this one completely apart to get it to work (not recommended if you don't have to do it!) so got a good look at all the internal parts & markings.
A remarkably simple design.
Not sure why there are 3 flat springs in the barrel (top) latch but seems to work.


BTW - the reason it wasn't working - a mud dauber (?) crammed the insides with dirt.
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964AWACS
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Re: Van Karner VK12

Post by 964AWACS »

Thanks for responses.

Somd - it is interesting that on my "A" prefixed series, the word "PATENTED" was spelled out while yours is abbreviated "PT".

There is so much we don't know about US flare guns of this era. I live in northern Virginia and for many years have wanted to take a few days to dive in to the National Archives. I would think there should at least be records of government purchase contracts there. Alas, where to find the time...

--Rob
somd_mustangs
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Re: Van Karner VK12

Post by somd_mustangs »

I'm across the river from you...

I'm not sure the "PT" is short for "Patented", I believe it's a military (?) inspector or acceptance mark - usually it's followed by a date stamp.
There's one of these on the GB right now that has PT 7/45 (not sure about the exact date) on that same spot.
I saw another one that didn't have markings in either "box" but can't find the pics again.
Other American flare guns in my meager collection have similar "PT" markings with dates.

Signalman or one of the other advanced collectors would be the better authority.

I agree, there is not much out there as a research resource, or even for pricing info.
As a relative newbie that's frustrating... I just keep asking questions and hope to absorb whatever the smart guys say :)
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964AWACS
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Re: Van Karner VK12

Post by 964AWACS »

[quote="As a relative newbie that's frustrating... I just keep asking questions and hope to absorb whatever the smart guys say :)[/quote]


Same here!

This is a wide-open area for research at least as deserving as the attention that has put into other American small arms over the last couple of decades.

I just gave a presentation on German and U.S. Flare Guns of WW2 to the Virginia Gun Collectors Association. I could give details on the German LPs that just isn't available for the U.S. ones.
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964AWACS
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Re: Van Karner VK12

Post by 964AWACS »

BTW - I have a Sklar Flare Pistol that is marked "PT. 7 45" (similar to the Van Karner currently on gunbroker) so you may be right about an inspector mark vice Patent abbreviation.

--Rob
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