Model M

[Hebel94]

You will find pictures of two Model M that I have (in two separate posts). They are serial number H700 and H708. They seem to be dated 1917 as marked on the frame. However, I am not sure that this model was produced during WWI. Could any one confirm? Many thanks in advance.

[Hebel94]

This is the second model

[signalman]

My model "M"'s are packed where I cannot get to them now. However, yours look like they are Israeli proofed near the date. My guess is that your guns came in from an Arms importer. They were probably bought by the Israeli's as surplus and stamped mistakenly with the 1917 date - as they did use the same 37mm cartridge that the WWI flare pistols used - or stamped 1917 by the Importer to " Identify " a year of production making it easier to get by customs.

Either way, I do not believe these were manufactured that early. Do you have a better photo showing the barrel address ??

[Hebel94]

Hello, I have at last been able to check the address on the barrels. It is Birmingham.

[Pilot7474]

Been a bit quiet on this subject.

Signalman, I found on the website of Webley historian Richard Milner that all flareguns with H prefix serial numbers were made between 1951 and 1964.

http://www.armsresearch.co.uk/The%20Web ... chive.html

Various Signal/Very pistols

Very numbers 2400 – 137369 (1915 – 1938)

C pre-fix numbers 1 – 19099 (1950 – 1951)

H pre-fix numbers 1 – 61099 (1951 – 1964)

No4 Mk1 numbers 10000 – 11799 (1954 – 1957)

Speary numbers 1 – 399 (1927 – 1934)

The 1917 date, therefor is totally spurious and possibly meant to avoid customs problems.

Interesting thing is that these Model M flareguns are full of proofmarks for nitro while they are, in fact, blackpowder guns (flareguns are always black powder). The reason is that in 1954 they thought that black powder was obsolete and abolished the blackpowder proofmark (reintroducing it when replicas became in fashion). Hence flareguns have nitro proof. I had a German LP 43 with British nitro proofmarks that were put there when the gun was offered for sale by a British soldier who brought it back from Germany. In England not firearm may be sold when it does not have valid proof.
So the gun got nitro markings.....

The model M, however, was produced in that period so always has BNP 1 1/2 tons nitro proof marks.

[signalman]

Great information. This is what the forum is all about.

I am still looking for ANY information regarding the European Use of the Original Costons flares from 1859 through 1881.

Please, next to nothing is known about these early flares, and flare pistols or holders. Photo's, Patents, contracts & orders, ANY INFORMATION IS NEEDED ! !

[ayf]

Found this one in Norway,someone know the year of Production ? Serial number 93509

Best regards Norway

[signalman]

Note No 4 mk 1 flare pistols

I found on the website of Webley historian Richard Milner that all

No4 Mk1 (1916 – 1938)

numbers 21810 – 24876 also 44800 – 58199

Note in book – not numbered after the war

Yet, No4 Mk1

numbers 10000 – 11799 (1954 – 1957)

And there is nothing to indicate wartime production, as there must have been. So Either the books are incomplete ( most likely ), or the descriptions in the book are wrong, or a combination of both. Note that there is no separate reference to indicate No4 mk1 and No4 mk1* with a star.

[ayf]

This was difficult to understand, I tried to decipher it. Anyone know the reason for the "W" stamped in barrel Chamber.? Thanks signalman

[SSG]

I shortly bought a Mod. M ser.-nr: H 9023. According to the post of Pilot 7474 it should be manufactured in 1953 (if calculated the average
of pieces/years). If I follow the posted link, there is one point: firearms sales: 64 - 70, 1,5 inch Signal Pistols H 6200 - H 10481.
If I calculate like before my H 9023 was sold probably in 1968. Thats a long time laying around in a depot!
Can anybody tell me, what SPF 223 means? It`s stamped on the right side of the grip, just above the triggerguard
Thanks for the answer to the riddle!