Polish M78 flare pistols actually contract made in Germany?

[billybibbet]

Not sure if this should be posted in the Combloc section or German section.

I think the common wisdom of the Polish M78 was that it was a (presumably) licensed copy of the HK P2A1 and manufactured at the Radom arsenal, as they all have the "11" marking inside a circle, typical of their products.

Today, I saw on Gunbroker, an M78 that is claimed to have the original box from Germany, and the seller claims the are no serial numbers on the guns (he says he has several). (Edit: seller re-examined the box and contents and says indeed, the serial numbers on the frame and barrel match the serial number tag on the boxes...he mistakenly thought the numbers were a model number. The pouch/holster and brush are obvious of West German issue...

Here is the listing (while it lasts):
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =470042849

I will also attach a couple photos from the listing for posterity.
Can anyone else comment on the veracity of the sellers claims?

[bergler]

The german army sold about 3 or 4 years ago a lot of their H&K flare guns, new, with Accessoires. They were all with the box shown here, same Holster and brush. NEw, sealed in plastic. The box has the Serial Number of the H&K flare gun on it, matching. This set shown here is NOT original as it should be I think. The german army did not use the polish clone, but had enough of their own H&Ks

[billybibbet]

Hi Martin,
That is what is interesting...Polish pistols in a German box? He said he also has LP-2s in sealed boxes like this as well. He is unsure if he will sell those immediately or not. I think he has at least one or two more of these Polish pistols to sell.

I guess the question I am posing, is: Is it possibly either H&K or a licensed contractor made these for the Polish military, so far as to even put the Circle 11 arsenal marks on the barrels? Just seems unlikely....yet here is some evidence...

Very confusing.

[bergler]

Hi Martin,
That is what is interesting...Polish pistols in a German box? He said he also has LP-2s in sealed boxes like this as well. He is unsure if he will sell those immediately or not. I think he has at least one or two more of these Polish pistols to sell.

I guess the question I am posing, is: Is it possibly either H&K or a licensed contractor made these for the Polish military, so far as to even put the Circle 11 arsenal marks on the barrels? Just seems unlikely....yet here is some evidence...

Very confusing.

As far as I know the polish clone was, as you stated, made in Poland (Radom). I am pretty sure about this. I think this Box and flare gun were not issued/sold together by the german army.

[billybibbet]

That was my thought as well Martin, that the pistols were swapped...with the seller substituting the Polish version for the original German one....but he claims the serial number of the guns matches the labels on the boxes...and that he has sealed ones still, that have not yet been opened.

[bergler]

I have had many of those, for resale. Same box, same tape for closing, same Holster, same brush. The seller had many hundreds of those, all H&K, no clone. If of big interest I can ask him, be bought big quantities straigh from the Bundeswehr. If you want I can send a mail. Me personally, I think this is not an original set, but then again, one never knows....